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Marie Prokopets
I’m Marie, co-founder of FYI and Product Habits, AMA 🔥
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I've had a wild ride of a career, from founding multiple products (some of which are 💀) to working with celebrities in the alcohol industry, to working on $26 billion worth of M&A deals, plus I've won awards for my comedy writing. Also, I like to meditate, burn sage, and collect crystals. 👋 Here to answer any and all questions about SaaS, content marketing, remote work, document apps, product, transitioning from corporate to startups, writing, selecting crystals, the future, and me 🔮
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Kunal Bhatia
Hi Marie 👋 Have you ever done standup comedy? If so, how do you get material to write? Any good tech-inspired bits you've written?
Marie Prokopets
@kunalslab I did standup comedy only once. I was terrible. My psychic life coach / dear friend had challenged me to do stand up at the time, and I was so terrified of doing it that I had to work a shaman to heal my fears and be able to get up on stage. And that's what my bit ended up being about. The main thing I learned was this: I was in the front room of the bar completely paralyzed. I couldn't move. How was I going to make my way to the back room where the open mic night was? I was a mess. Suddenly, I became aware of a voice in my head - you know, that voice you hear when you are thinking about how worried or scared you are of something. It was saying "You can't do this. You can't do this. You can't do this." In that moment I saw just how much I was stopping myself. Of course I COULD do it - there was no "can't." So I stopped listening to the fear-mongering voice, the one that was holding me back, and went and got up on stage and did my crappy bit. My psychic life coach was right - the stand up was important for me to do because it showed me my own internal shit talker. I have written a few feature length + TV comedy scripts & won a few awards for them. I always get all my material/inspiration from my life, the things I experience, observe, think about. Dating used to be a big source of comedic inspiration. And the alcohol industry too. Tech, however, hasn't really inspired me at all. Would love to get material from the industry / space though. Maybe I'm just not thinking hard enough...
Kunal Bhatia
@marie_prokopets wow! quite the turnaround with silencing the mental fears! I've done standup twice now. The first time was because I lost my fantasy football league (2 years in a row :( I had to retake the SATs the year before that!). I love longer format, storytelling-type comedy, so doing a 4-minute set was really hard. I got a couple of chuckles with a packed room. They were mainly from my friends who came :| The second time I did a set was a couple of weeks ago as part of my going-away events in Boston before moving to SF. I had a blast, even though my set was at 12:40am and there were only comedians left who were waiting to do their own sets. I've done a mix of dating, tech, dating-tech, and random observational humor. Would love to see some of your work soon! Perhaps we can do an open mic sometime in South Bay or SF together? Would love to write some new jokes :)
Marie Prokopets
@kunalslab I love that you had to retake the SATs because you lost your fantasy football league, please tell me you've written about that - if not, you've got your chance! I could be convinced to do an open mic... I am terrified and feeling quite rusty... but I could be convinced :)
Kunal Bhatia
@marie_prokopets I had a short bit about it in my first set, but I'll have to re-write something for this time. If you do an open mic, you'll get to hear the new SAT bit – deal?! :)
Justin Jackson
Hi Marie! As someone who used to work in the alcohol industry, what do you think of these new “sober” drink products that have popped up lately? (Examples: Kin Euphorics, Cann). Do you think they have a fighting chance to compete with alcoholic beverages?
Marie Prokopets
@mijustin Hey Justin! You just won my favorite question 😺I LOVE the new sober drink products + low alcohol products like Kin Euphorics and Haus. Another one that I have my eye on is Seedlip which funny enough my old company Diageo (largest spirits company in the world) had invested in in the past and just became a majority shareholder of. If that's not a sign, I don't know what is. Well, maybe people like @justinkan announcing that they've stopped drinking, then having 1000s of people join Telegram groups to also go sober. This category is small, but it will grow over time. There will be acquisitions, and there will be growth. Plus a lot of these companies will be more innovative and tech savvy than the giant slower-moving alcohol behemoths. Sober bars are popping up in cities (for real). I even got to enjoy a wonderful non-alcoholic Seedlip-based cocktail at Trick Dog in San Francisco recently. P.S. - I quit drinking about 2 years ago, hence my excitement. If there are any non-alcoholic products out there who need some advice, feel free to hit me up :) In terms of cannabis drinks like Cann I think this is a totally different category with a way different growth trajectory and set of challenges. One sign here is that tons of people I used to work with at Diageo - even very very senior people - have moved from the alcohol industry to the cannabis industry in the US and Canada. This industry is going nuts, and needs experts who are used to navigating highly regulated industries. There is a lot of uncertainty in the industry, issues with banking, lots of risk - but eventually it will be a behemoth of an industry. Constellation has invested in the category already (40% of Canopy Growth) and Diageo has said they are tracking it: "On cannabis we’re just tracking it, it’s at a very early stage. We’re looking at the sector, it’s nascent and we just want to understand the consumer behaviour.”
Ghost Kitty
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Marie Prokopets
@aaron_kazah Early on, your number one goal is to accelerate your product development. Assuming you've been able to validate your idea through research (that includes building some kind of MVP, even if it's without code), the next thing to consider is whether or not you are technical. If you / your co-founders can code, then you should be focused on finding someone who can help with aspects of product you are less resourced in, such as design, management or more engineers. For my co-founder and I, we are both not technical, so our first order of business was hiring engineers and then moving on to find someone who could help us with design.
Ghost Kitty
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Marie Prokopets
@aaron_kazah I would say that you shouldn't hire a sales team at that stage. It's too small an amount for the economics to work. You should focus on doing sales yourself or understanding how to get larger deals (i.e. at the 5-figure a year plus range).
Ghost Kitty
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Ghost Kitty
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Marie Prokopets
@aaron_kazah Scale should be an afterthought. Make sure to learn everything about your customer and the problem your product is solving. Keep iterating until you build something your customers love. Thinking about scale too early is futile, since you are going to learn so much and your product will keep changing and evolving. Once you know enough about the customer and problem and you have the resources to think about scale, that's when it's time.
Manuela Bárcenas
Hi Marie, I really admire your work - thanks for taking the time to answer our questions 👋 What are your favourite channels/ways to promote a piece of long-form content (e.g. a guide or an e-book?)
Marie Prokopets
@manuelabarcenas Hi Manuela :) Product Hunt is amazing if you have something that you can launch. That means it can't just be a blog post and has to be special. Do some searching on there and see what's done well in terms of the topic you are going after and what format it was in. Twitter is a really great place to share content - try doing tweetstorms, getting friends to share your content, and also sharing something personal helps too. After that, Hacker News and Reddit are great. We don't normally submit things on our own to Hacker News, but (and I mentioned her in another response) I've seen @anthilemoon submit her blog posts on her own to Hacker News and it work quite well. We've submitted to Reddit on our own and it's worked, but you have to pay attention to the policies of the subreddit. And of course there's LinkedIn. I haven't mastered it myself yet, but if you study what's doing well on there you can probably get a good amount of views from it :)
Hiten Shah
What's your #1 piece of advice for someone who is building a new SaaS product?
Marie Prokopets
@hnshah Research. Before you build anything, validate the problem. Do enough customer research to feel like you validated your idea, then do even more. Talk to as many people as you can to understand their problem. Do surveys if possible, and user tests. That includes building an MVP as part of that research. One of the best things we did early on for FYI was build a 5-day MVP to validate our idea and also understand how to best solve the problem. Our MVP was just a search box that connected to a few apps and let you search for documents across them. We then had 10 customers use the MVP and talk to us each week for over a month. We learned so much from that first month+, it still affects how we build features for FYI today, over a year later.
Hong Quan
Hi @Marie_Prokopets, Thanks for doing this AMA, big fan of yours as someone who's also had a very "wild ride" of a career. Here's my (somewhat specific) question: If I'm launching a new product, and have to start content marketing, where do you think I should start? Blogs, vlogs, podcasts or anything else you'd suggest? How should we think about the competition, and do we directly address them or not? Cheers, Hong
Marie Prokopets
@quan Hi Hong! What are you good at? What gets you excited? That should be the first consideration. For me and Hiten, we chose the blogging path because we have those capabilities already. I love to write, and we both know how to write really good content. If you have something unique to say that people will be interested in, I'd say write, and keep on sharing it. And of course you should do SEO keyword research and understand who is ranking for what and why. If you can get on podcasts and have something interesting to say, you should totally do that. You can also run some experiments and see what people love - before you create a podcast for example, see if people will listen to videos of you talking (on instagram, facebook, linkedin). Video is growing quite a bit too so you could experiment there. And of course, think about the channels you'll use to promote what you create. My personal bias is to blogging, though it is time consuming. And I'm seeing companies and people get a lot of traction from their blogs - one person who is having success with content right now is @anthilemoon https://nesslabs.com/best The second consideration is where are the people you are targeting? How are they consuming content? We recently did a survey asking product people where they go to look for product content. The highest % of people listened to podcasts, next was Twitter, followed by reading newsletters and email lists, and reading blogs and online articles. Is your competition question about content or about the competitors themselves?
Hong Quan
Thanks @marie_prokopets! I've been blogging for a few years, but not sure if we're reaching the right people on Medium. As for podcasts, I've been on a few, didn't think about creating our own podcast. I love the idea of videos since our products are somewhat complicated to understand, but I hate being on camera. The competitor question was whether we mention other products in our content marketing. The reason would be to explain how our products are better.
Marie Prokopets
@quan Putting your blog posts on Medium means you are losing 3 main things: 1) people being on your website and being able to sign up for your product or email newsletter right from the blog 2) the added brand equity you get from the posts being on your site and reminding people who you are, 3) the SEO value. Medium gets you reach, but with their audience. People may not even realize who your company is, and they are probably off to read another post on Medium about something else once they've read your content. You aren’t building your own audience or able to have a way to directly reach people like you can with a self-hosted blog or wordpress.com blog where you can have people who want to get your emails. That would be my top recommendation for you. Since you hate being on camera, maybe you should force yourself and see what comes of it :) I always recommend pushing yourself and getting over your aversions by just doing the thing you feel afraid of or repelled by. In terms of mentioning your competitors, there are certainly ways to do this really well. Like this: https://www.notion.so/evernote In regular blog posts I wouldn't recommend talking about your competitors unless there really is some strategic reason - for example, you are making a map of the market.
Lenny Rachitsky
Looking back at your past work that succeeded and 💀, across startups, M&A, and even writing, what are common traits of the things that worked out? What do you look for now when deciding what to tackle?
Marie Prokopets
@lenny_rachitsky I think of everything that's happened as something that's "worked out." Why? Because I learned from it. I became a better version of myself. I went through an experience I didn't have before. I met people, saw things, found things out about myself. The common traits for when it was something I really enjoyed / feel proud of are - 1) I was terrified or at least very scared of doing it, 2) I thought I was possibly wrong and had to figure out if that was actually the case (this goes for customer research big time), 3) I was driven to do it by some unseen force, drawn to it even if there was no logical explanation, 4) I found myself pouring so much time and effort into it, and couldn't help myself from working late nights on it, 5) it felt good to do and work on. I'm pretty judicious with my time these days, so when there is something to tackle for FYI we base our decisions on research, intuition, desired outcomes, as well as interest. Even for marketing initiatives. For Product Habits, we make sure it's something that's valuable to our audience (i.e. our customers) and that we'll enjoy and learn from as well. On the personal front, I follow my heart and intuition.
Ruben Gamez
I know you've been doing freemium now for a bit with FYI. What's something unintuitive but important that you've learned about marketing/growing a freemium product?
Marie Prokopets
@earthlingworks The biggest lesson I’ve learned about freemium is that you have to focus on a single thing at a time and have a lot of patience to do that. Initially, we tried to get a number of things right all at the same time. The single player interface, the value metric for upgrades, and also our onboarding. It turns out that there is a sequence of things you need to focus on before you can get to the free-to-paid upgrade rate. Freemium requires a ton of patience 🕑 and even more focus than if you are creating a non-freemium SaaS product.
Ruben Gamez
@marie_prokopets Interesting! So, how would you figure out that sequence? Is it going after the #1 growth bottleneck? Or starting from onboarding and activation through to upgrade and retention?
Marie Prokopets
@earthlingworks Freemium businesses are successful when the free part of the product solves a really painful problem that then opens up more problems that get solved for customers once they upgrade. Using that logic, the sequence for us should have been the core interface first, then onboarding and then pricing. If you can’t get the interface right then it doesn’t matter how great onboarding is. And if the interface and onboarding aren't on point, then you’ll end up wasting time trying to figure out pricing.
Marie Prokopets
@earthlingworks Thanks for these awesome questions btw Ruben :)
Ruben Gamez
@marie_prokopets thanks for the insightful answers!
Vikas Jha
How did @hnshah and you meet ? How did you decide, we will work together ? I have asked Hiten a few times. So hoping to get an answer today :)
Ryan Negri
What would be your advice for someone pivoting from a (multiple) startup founder to working within a corporation (innovation role)?
Marie Prokopets
@ryannegri Learn as much as you can. Treat the entire experience as a way to learn about whatever it is you are doing. And bring what you've learned from your time founding multiple startups to your new role - big companies are dying for entrepreneurial people who think differently. If your company already has innovation frameworks they are using, see what you can bring into the process that will fit. For example, can you bring in postmortems? Is there a framework you can bring in for coming up with product names? Complementing existing processes is great. And of course, be humble - otherwise it's really tough to learn.
Karan Ahuja
In your experience, what can teams do to ensure success of early access programs? What are best practices to shorten customer feedback loops & iteration cycles?
Jeff Whitlock
What are the most common user research mistakes that startups make? @hnshah said you're an amazing customer researcher, so excited for your insights!
Marie Prokopets
@hnshah @jeff_whitlock Here are just a few. Mistake 1) they focus more on how much information they need for it to be "statistically significant" instead of just hearing from as many customers as they can (through interviews, surveys, user tests). do research first, then do even more, then do even more. Mistake 2) not doing user tests. even the 5 second homepage user tests. user tests on designs, your website, and on competitors are super valuable. Mistake 3) not diversifying the information they are looking at - for example, if you just make decisions based on user tests you are missing out on insights from customer interviews that would complement what you learned and help round it out. Mistake 4) not finding out why customers left. there's so much to learn by just sending a quick email to people who churned to find out why. Mistake 5) not doing thorough analysis of what was learned. if you don't summarize customer interviews / surveys in an unbiased way, did they really happen?
Stefanie Grieser
How did you meet Hiten? What made you co-founders? What is your working relationship like (ie - who does what and where do your roles change/split/differ?
Marie Prokopets
@smgrieser Check out my answer to Vikas Jha on how Hiten and I met and decided to be co-founders. Earlier on, we used to collaborate a lot and own things together. Now, we've split up who owns what. One of us owns something and the other one jumps in as help or feedback is needed. Hiten owns sales/BD and growth, and I own product and content. I own leading certain types of marketing initiatives and he owns others.
Helen
@marie_prokopets thanks again for doing an AMA w/ us. During the early days, how did you extract then convert the data & insight from your research and conversations into direct objectives and actions? After all we're making life decisions off this information? Also, how is this process different today esp w/ your larger data set? I'm dealing w/ this problem now.
Marie Prokopets
@helengriffinjr We discovered the problem through 52 interviews, 1000s of survey responses (feature/value, pricing, competitor analysis/NPS, early access surveys) and tons of user tests, and then even more customer interviews. Plus, we monitored usage of our MVP and the product as we iterated. This was not the normal way that most people do early research, we had a lot of data to work with and also we'd found a particularly painful problem to solve. We were also public about the research we were doing and shared what we learned along the way, which helped us get a lot more responses. We used the same process then as we do now to learn from the data. There's no real difference except that we've been able to refine how we analyze surveys/interviews/user tests to be even less biased by quantifying everything.
Courtland Allen
Hi Marie! There are all sorts of "fits" involved in running a company… product-market fit, founder-product fit, founder-market fit, product-channel fit, whatever your heart desires. What fit would you say is typically top of mind for you from project to project? And how do go about making sure that fit works out?
Marie Prokopets
@csallen Hi Courtland! I love this question. So I came into tech/startups in 2016 and hadn't ever heard of the fit frameworks, even though I had already spent a decade as a business person. I just did business, launched new products, did research. And then suddenly, once I got into startup land everyone was talking about all these types of fits. And it's intensified quite a bit recently. I love product/market fit as a survey methodology and a way of thinking about a milestone to hit and then keep hitting again and again as the market and customer expectations change. I wish I had known about it sooner! But beyond product/market fit surveys and the concept of attaining product/market fit, it feels as if there is an obsession with different kinds of fits. My hunch is that it helps people have a mental model about how to operate. But I don’t see people regularly thinking in terms of fit. For me, my response to Nathan’s question is how I think about businesses I'm running. Using honesty to guide you. You could call it self-honesty fit. (oh no, now I'm coming up with fit frameworks!)
Kate Talbot
Wow what a career! What has it been like working in tech as a woman comparative to finance and deals. Have you seen similarities? Love all your writing recently on remote work! Keep sharing 🤘🏻
Marie Prokopets
@katetalbot2 Hi Kate 👋💅 This is a challenging question for me personally, because I've always tried to power through whatever it is that I'm working on and not pay attention to the gender aspect when it comes to myself. Back in my old jobs prior to being a founder, I learned the basic things women tend to not be as good as men at, and made sure I was amazing at them all (negotiating salary/roles, speaking up about my accomplishments, networking and getting to know everyone). And I always helped guide women on my teams to do the same. That said, I was in denial, as I've had my fair share of sexism thrown my way and have lots of stories from back then that I basically ignored, whether it's being asked by much older clients if they recognized me because we had dated in the past, asked if I was the secretary since I was the lone woman, or told that if I don't take a job that was offered to me I'll only be left with waitressing as an option. (all of these incidents were with either clients or acquiring companies, not my own). In tech, the challenges are much more visible and harder to ignore. For example, for the Product Habits newsletter, I've noticed that when we ask people to recommend their favorite resources, there are few (if any) women that get mentioned in responses. I also constantly see stories on Twitter where people are treated differently because of their gender (whether it's cat calls or people assuming women are not technical). So it's much more in your face. I think, however, new communities are sprouting up to help with this - and these are communities that I never even imagined would exist just 10 years ago. Like Girlboss, The Wing, and Elpha. They are helping us bridge the gap. These days I personally try to level the playing field by wielding my power through straightening my hair or doing my nails on video calls. Just kidding - except those things have happened and I may have really enjoyed doing it. Also thanks for the remote shout out ❤️
Marie Prokopets
@katetalbot2 I feel like I have a lot to say on the subject now that you asked - so thank you :)
Sharath Kuruganty
What are some of the new habits you started which are exciting and making your day more positive?
Marie Prokopets
@5harath I've been in bad habits land for a while and (your question is very timely) decided to start more good habits last night/today. Today I didn't rush to look at my phone when I first woke up. I waited about 40 minutes before I jumped in, and noticed how anxious looking at Twitter, Instagram and my email made me feel. This made me want to go move to a tropical island without a cellphone. Yesterday evening I took a nice long walk with my dog at 9pm because I felt that I'd been sitting at my computer all day. One that I missed last night was that I wanted to plan my day and tasks and non-work things (meditation, cleaning the house) yesterday. Not sure yet what other good habits the day has in store...
Sharath Kuruganty
Good luck @marie_prokopets! Thanks for being so open. I still believe that we all can rewire our routines into something more mindful. I recently started two new habits as well. One is writing gratitude journal first thing I wake up in the morning. Second habit is a very deep and hard one. I have a sticky note that says "If today were the last day of my life, what would I want to do?" All I need to do is to answer that question and keep the answers close to me throughout the day. Both habits have tremendous impact on me in less time. I'm more happy and content these days. Wish you the same with whatever you are trying. Again, thanks for answering my question.
Marie Prokopets
@5harath Love your two habits! I do a morning gratitude mental walkthrough when I wake up and when I go to bed - but only when I remember. I love your mechanism which involves writing, and the sticky note too.
Nathan Baschez
What are your most essential mental models / frameworks for building new businesses?
Marie Prokopets
@nbashaw My first essential mental model/framework is honesty. Is this honestly a big, painful problem for people? Are we honestly solving the problem, or just part of the way there? Is this honestly a category I'm interested in for years to come? Is this honestly a big, growing category? Did we honestly do enough customer research? (usually the answer is no because you can always do more 😺) Did we do an honest assessment of our successes and failures via a postmortem? If I'm honest with myself, where can I improve? Do our customers honestly love us? Did we get honest, unbiased feedback from customers that we analyzed in an honest way? Also a fan of the Regret Minimization Framework from Jeff Bezos, and of course Lean Startup and building MVPs.