@destroysultan Thanks Troy!

@paisano Hey Paisano! Thanks for taking the time to comment. I just want to point out that this false narrative being pushed by our President isn't true and has been widely debunked. The Commissioner of the Federal Elections Commission actually released a statement today to set the record straight: "There's simply no basis for the conspiracy theory that voting by mail causes fraud. None." I'd encourage you to read more about this here: https://twitter.com/EllenLWeintr...

@ckhan13 Thanks for flagging this! Just fixed.

@justin_rockmore Hey Justin! Thanks for taking the time to comment. While I understand your concern is about vote by mail fraud, I just want to point out that this false narrative being pushed by our President isn't true and has been widely debunked. The Commissioner of the Federal Elections Commission actually released a statement today to set the record straight: "There's simply no basis for the conspiracy theory that voting by mail causes fraud. None." I'd encourage you to read more about this here: https://twitter.com/EllenLWeintr...

@justin_rockmore I would also point out that it's not true that the virus has a lower mortality rate than the flu. It's true that the CDC came out with a (widely criticized) new set of estimates, however, it's based on five scenarios, all of which have at least as much or greater mortality than the flu. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/art...

@stephen_downes Not to start an argument but the source you just cited is Buzzfeed (Lol). And the CDC's estimates are also in line with numerous studies done independently, and by universities (USC, UCLA, NY State, etc.) that say the same is true. Even discounting those studies, the studies that have supplied ample data as to the actual % of the US infected by the virus v. those who have died show the mortality rate is incredibly low. Even discounting THAT, all states that have significantly eased or dismissed "lockdown protocols" have had either no change in the case count or have continued downwards - no statistically significant spikes. But sure. Buzzfeed is right. Even though the scientists they cite in the article haven't accounted for: (1) The changes in numbers between 'dying with COVID' and 'dying from COVID'. Originally most states were requiring patients who died "with COVID' to be counted as having died "of COVID" - as this has been corrected on a state by state basis death tolls have immediately dropped 25%+ and (2) the fact that numerous states have been, and haven't been hiding the fact, that they've been inflating death rates through numerous means - the first of which I'd previously mentioned in point (1) the second of which includes "just assuming" people had COVID upon death (NY officials have said on more than one occasion this assumption was made) ... Sure though, let's ignore actual data, rely solely on models that have not been correct once. Stay locked in our homes for months on end, and then watch as Mail-In Voting, which has been proven time and time and time and time and time again to be unreliable, and easily cheated, is used. ProductHunt used to be a community of logical thinkers, shame it doesn't seem that's the case anymore. EDIT: It was confirmed today that Washington state counted gunshot deaths among total coronavirus death tolls - but please continue to tell me how the death rate is higher than stats are saying.

@camwoodsum Also thanks for your reply comment - I never said anything about the President so I'm not sure why you bothered to bring him up. But since you did, you should know Twitter just redacted and issued a correction on their own fact check of his statement because it was wrong lol. Any amount of personal research would prove that the likelihood of voter fraud increases drastically when vote by mail is a norm - and simple rational thought does would draw the same conclusion - "I'd encourage you to read more" in general. In the past few weeks alone: - Gavin Newsome announced he'd be allowing and sending mail-in ballots to anyone on the voter register (alive, dead, illegal, etc.) this is, of course, without the need for VoterID - A USPS mail carrier was charged with ballot tampering of mail-in ballots - Detroit registered 30k more registered voters than those of-age in the city able to vote Those are just a few, of many, examples in the past few weeks...but sure "widely debunked" unless you think about it for 10 seconds. If I'm allowed to vote, without the use of ID or a SSN to verify my citizenship, and the ballot is able to leave my hands and be transported elsewhere in the hands of others - logic would dictate things would change. I'm all for mail-in voting if: VoterID and SSNs are required (which in many states and cases neither is...), hand-to-hand transfer is minimized, etc. - all things that would prevent the fraud that has happened and continues to happen to this day - but that's not what your service or current legislation is promoting. Ever play the game of telephone as a kid? You whisper a message into the person next to you's ear and see how much the message changes with no verifiability as it goes around a circle? The only way to verify how much the message has changes is for it to get back to you in the circle - but the message never gets back to you with mail-in voting, you never verify for yourself how much the message (your vote) has changed if at all. That's what the current state of mail-in voting is and that's what you're trying to not just justify, but promote, with a product like this.

@justin_rockmore I'm sorry, you're just trolling this forum with false information, for political purposes. I doubt that you know more than the scientists, no matter where they're cited.

@emily_corsaro thanks Emily!

@andrew_tp Thanks Andrew! Agreed all around.

@sarahsemark Agreed and no problem!

@erik_griffin Thanks for letting me know Erik! Working with Vote.org to resolve this. What was the exact issue that you faced? The form wouldn't load?

@camwoodsum on submission the modal went gray and with chrome's broken brick-face said "something.vote.org failed to connect." I don't recall what the exact subdomain was

@lurie_kimmerle No problem! Thanks for checking it out and commenting.

@furniturewinches Thanks Jim!

@realaugustrush Hi August, thanks for taking the time to comment! Did you read the page that you just linked to? It specifically says "documented instances of fraud related to VBM are rare." If you're arguing that there isn't a debate and that vote by mail causes widespread fraud, then you should probably use evidence that supports your position instead of refuting it.

@camwoodsum Stop distorting the truth, Cam. You’re really going to do play this dumb? Really? Yes I have read the article, but would question whether you have or are just conveniently disregarding the inconvenient truth. To anybody reading this, Cam left out literally *the very next sentence* that says — “However, even many scholars who argue that fraud is generally rare agree that fraud with VBM voting seems to be more frequent than with in-person voting.” Check it out for yourself, you’ll confirm Cam is selectively leaving out information that damages his viewpoint. Again, what I said is it’s not up for debate whether vote-by-mail increases fraud. It 100% does. I also said that while you may not believe it happens *at a worrisome enough rate*(go back and reread my comment please), millions do think this and would actually like secure elections. Especially after being lectured for years about a Russian hoax that allegedly influenced the last election. Again, even the experts and proponents of vote-by-mail grudgingly agree it increases fraud, and the level of VBM you seem to want would give cover for mass fraud and insecure, compromised elections. One fraudulent vote is too many. We shouldn’t be making voting for people without voting rights easier *WITHOUT* ALSO putting into place more safeguards to ensure only the people allowed to vote are voting, but one political party seems steadfast against common sense secure election measures like taxpayer funded Voter ID. Most developed countries have this and are laughing that we don’t have common sense security in place to stop fraud.

@realaugustrush Convenient that you created an anonymous ProductHunt profile just to reply to this thread and try to spread misinformation. You're now changing your argument to distort the fact that your source contradicted the main point of your initial argument. You wrote "Vote-by-mail in its current state...is absolutely rife for fraud" and I simply pointed out that the source you used to backup your claims said, "documented instances of fraud related to VBM are rare." I get that you're trying to muddy the debate and cause confusion because your main point is false, but we're debating whether VBM causes a meaningful amount of fraud (not whether it slightly increases the amount of minuscule voter fraud). And because it's rare, even the best source that you could find to back up your points refuted your claims... Oregon has only been doing vote by mail since 2000 and between 2000-2012 they have 100+ million votes cast and ~12 voter fraud cases (0.0000001% of all votes cast). Yet you're writing: "vote-by-mail in its current state...is absolutely rife for fraud." Since you're anonymous and you proved that your own core point is false, I'm going to sign off. No hard feelings, hope you have a good rest of 2020!

@camwoodsum I can repeat my argument ad nauseum, and you would notice if you had better reading comprehension skills that it has not changed at all, and that *you* just keep misreading it. *Again*, you are not connecting some very basic points. VBM, *in its current state*, *at the level you seem to want*... is rife for fraud. You keep leaving out things I said. You seem to be advocating for a huge and unprecedented amount of VBM -- which yes, again -- will increase the amount of fraud (and of course there wouldn't be data to show how widespread it *will* be, because... it's unprecedented, that's kind of the entire point). On a personal level, what amount of voter fraud is fine for you? I want secure elections. *Everybody* should want secure elections. I believe *any* fraud is way "too much" fraud, *especially* when there are *common sense* proposals that would instantly help secure elections from VBM's currently fundamental and obvious weak points. Also on a tangent... most of the Internet uses anonymous accounts. This is nothing new and is really the norm since the very beginning. It just goes to show you have nefarious reasons for even trying to point that out as some kind of argumentative tactic. Please argue the ideas (the ones I've actually said). I seriously doubt, however, that you will miraculously learn to be honest or increase your reading comprehension in the span of reading this comment. Lastly, you too have a great 2020, and please also advocate for secure elections as this helps *everybody*!