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PlayOn Cloud — Streaming video recorder for iOS. Recordings never expire.
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@rrhoover @skip721 I would surmise that, no, it probably isn't 100% legal. The real problem, though, is that tech has created this gray area where legal and illegal blur to some extent. The same is very true with music, particularly because artists have a different end-game than the major corporations (in that respect, major labels) who may hold certain distribution rights. But that's a different conversation.
Here, because TV and movies are inherently different than music, the potential illegality and strategy must be considered differently (or at least taken with a truckload of salt).
As with music, I see potential paths to get around this without encountering (too much) legal action, but it would require doing the legwork to appeal directly to the creators of the shows and/or whoever holds the creative rights. It's an independent play, and that's how it should be strategized.
@rrhoover @skip721 I appreciate the question. Yes, PlayOn Cloud is absolutely legal. It falls under the same consumer fair use as a traditional DVR (and the VCR before that). Our desktop software (PlayOn Desktop) has been around for many years and we added DVR features to that back in 2011. Also, in regards to Netflix and their built in download feature...not all titles are available to download (thousands of titles aren't), and it's only available in the mobile app. With PlayOn, you can record any title and then download to watch on any device. You're not limited to your phone or tablet. Also, each month titles expire from Netflix. Using PlayOn, you can record those titles before they expire to watch offline at a time of your choosing. Once you've downloaded a PlayOn recording, it doesn't expire.
@rberrehili @rrhoover @skip721 We can assure you that PlayOn Cloud is legal...it's no different than a traditional DVR. As a consumer, you're allowed to record content you have legal access to.
@skips721 @rrhoover @skip721 No you can't, because the rights for the contents are negociated considering the territory you're watching them in.
So let's say I download a movie in the US which has been negotiated for 0.10cts per view and I watch it in France, territory in which the deal is about 0.15cts per view, the rights bearers lose 5cts per each view.
@marketplicity - hi Chris. Thanks for the question. Though we don't have any plans for Spotify, we will be expanding on the channel lineup.
indeed netflix does not allow to download a huge part of the catalog. but one problem the display of the font and pics are really small ...please change that really unusable right now
@ourielohayon - thanks for the feedback. Can you elaborate a bit? Do you mean as you're browsing the various channels in PlayOn (drilling down through the lists of videos)?
@skips721 any thing in your app is way too small. menu buttons/text/catalogs/jackets. you need really a good eye. it should match the same proportion as netflix
@ourielohayon Thanks! We have some UI changes planned and already in the works.
Hunter
Record your favorite shows and automatically download them to your iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch! Once your recording is downloaded you can watch it anytime and anywhere! Sweeet!
@falemaster @skip721 - It depends on the channel and whether or not the content provider allows for setting subtitles on/off as a default account preference. You can do so with Netflix - just play a video in a browser or in an app and enable subtitles. Let the video play for 5-6 minutes and that will become the new default account playback setting which will carry over to PlayOn Cloud.
The reason why I love the process of building User Experience so much is because, when done well, it will often times go even beyond legal and invariably reveal many folds of consequence.
Copyright right isn't that murky to figure out. In its core, the legal rights for "reproduction, exhibition and broadcasting" belong exclusively to its owner. The alleged loophole is because people somehow got away with tweaking the item 'broadcasting' when it is for personal usage.
In essence, with the advent of streaming practices, broadcasting changed to simply accessing or visualising content owned by others.
Spoiler: the simple act of Chromecasting content is now considered broadcasting, AND it's private.
If there's more than one person in the room -- presuming only one is the actual subscriber -- any despicable shark of a lawyer would have that head in a legal bucket proving copyright infringement.
The reason only a handful of countries are doing that with illegally downloaded content - for ex Scandinavian countries - is also simple: numbers vs ROI.
Right now the legal costs of suing people over (there are abundant grounds for that) is higher than what's being "stolen" and companies actually calculate piracy in their production nowadays as just another variable; until both speed and costs of legal change.
As we evolve and have everything handled more and more digitally -- the justice system won't always be this sluggish and expensive paper trail -- this will also change and companies will cash on that.
That odd and distant case of user fines in some faraway country is swiftly becoming a impending reality.
Plus, there are huge differences in how law and regulations are both perceived and practiced in different countries. The American "fair usage" act isn't neither practiced nor observed in many different countries.
There is a difference between "this is legal" versus "this ain't illegal yet".
All it would take is for someone to "borrow" their cable/service username and password to a PlayOn Cloud user who then downloads whatever and it all turns itself into a going-down-in-flames nightmare. If that usage is cross-countries, then add another layer of hot lava to it..
The regulations around "VCR usage" case are dated and not at all encompassing of the streaming reality with layers and more layers of new agreements over ownership and distribution rights.
This is being worked upon, heavily, since the past 10 years and to trust an old regulation to modulate a shifting and imminently volatile legal scenario is not only a tad arrogant (forgive me) but, business wise, an unnecessary HEOUGE risk.
To the point I'll just ask: why?
What does it solve?
What does it change?
What does it really offer?
It does feel like this is sort of like an angry project that's just happy to be tossed in the fire of a fight we all know who wins in the end.
Please argument, if this ain't the case, with something other than a dated convention that, rest assured, is changing as we speak.
Tic tac tic tac..
Thanks everyone for the feedback and discussion. Since many of you have asked questions about legality I wanted to post this entry from our blog. It's a question that comes up often, but PlayOn Cloud is essentially just a DVR. You're recording content that you have a right to for the purpose of time shifting. It's behavior that is protected by The Supreme Court. Our PC product which has the same functionality has been around since 2011 without challenge. Apple has conducted a legal review this very app and approved it for distribution via their Appstore.
Here is the blog piece we published a few months back with regard to this subject. https://www.playon.tv/blog/playo...
Hi all - We hope you dig PlayOn Cloud. We built PlayOn Cloud with versatility in mind - a way for people to record their favorite online streaming content to watch offline without the need for a PC. Every new account includes 5 free recordings. AND, unlike Netflix's native download feature, PlayOn allows you to record any Netflix title, you're not limited to watching on a mobile device....and recordings don't expire!
This looks promising! I was looking for something like this for a while. Guess I don’t like the list interface, I’d rather see the covers of the shows. But I’m looking forward to see how this evolves. I would use this even if I couldn’t download the shows. Just to have access to all of them in the same place for streaming is amazing!
I have a feeling this is one of those awesome apps that apple will pull from the app store. Downloading now...
@jxslepton We're confident that won't happen :) We had to go through the same submission and review process as any other app.
@skips721 any plans for an Apple TV app? Slowly cutting the cord and sounds like this would be a good solution for dvr functionality on the Apple tv
@jxslepton Yes, absolutely - we're working on it. In the meantime, you can also download recordings to your PC/Mac (we send a notification email when recordings are complete which include a download link). Once there, you should be able to stream to your Apple TV.
@jxslepton @skips721 PlayOn Cloud works great with AirPlay, so if you have an iPhone/iPad and an Apple TV you should be in business. For now, the phone does have to stay on the same WiFi network when you're using AirPlay.
Well done @jimholland and @skips721!
Here's an idea to you may want to incorporate at some point - a "radar" of what's leaving soon. Vulture.com has the listings every month, as well as some other sites. It would even be interesting to make "Leaving Soon" a category in your app, so we know when to start paying you ;-)
Examples:
http://www.vulture.com/2016/12/w...
http://www.vulture.com/2016/12/w...
http://www.vulture.com/2016/12/w...
http://www.vulture.com/2016/12/w...
@profitability4u @jimholland - thanks for that feedback. We do maintain a list of what's leaving Netflix on our site (300+ titles expired on 1/1). We'll be updating the page again this week once we have the full list available. https://www.playon.tv/what-to-re...
@profitability4u @jimholland some great BBC titles are scheduled to expire on 2/1, by the way :)
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